The more things stay the same

from Ubipetrus page

right

Sounds about right.



via fatherZ

reading stuff

In the 1950's, before Vatican II, there was a push for Catholics to read the bible.

We had a family bible, but my mother usually read from her Knox translation of the new testament, because unlike the traditional version it was easier to understand.

however, I am having trouble finding it on line (copyright issues have so far messed up the downloads for free ebooks).

But Youtube has some of the audio version on line. LUKE
 


MATTHEW
JOHN 

And then there is this essay, which examines Sherlock Holmes as if it were being done by a biblical critic.

No, I was never much of a Sherlock Holmes fan, but I am a rabid fan of the new Sherlock, mainly because of the personality interactions and the great dialogue (although I think the plots are a bit on the stupid side).

Paranoia or just reading too much?

The Anchoress has an article on the problem of the elites having a monopoly on politics and the media in the USA.

She quotes both Megan McArdle and Peggy Noonan..

the problem is an elite with lots of book learning (mainly about following the talking points/five minute hates that pass for news today) but little hands on experience with families, business, or coping with life outside of theory.

This is why a complacent press that spins for Obama is a real threat to democracy there.

Luckily they still haven't managed to silence Rush Limbaugh. Often when he is accused of 'hate speech" it is because he is being ironic/sarcastic in his humor and the comments are taken out of context to blacken his name.

Luckily so far he only laughs all the way to the bank.

The bad news is if they silence Rush, the vacuum will be filled with real haters like Glen Beck.

Sigh. Oh well...as my husband always told me: In case of trouble, we still will have rice to eat.

smearing the church...what else is new?

Insight scoop links to a UKTelegraph blog report on an extensive examination of the Irish laundry scandals, which found...not much went on.

The atheist Brendan O'Neill, who is editor of spiked! (and whose journalistic integrity has long impressed me) summarized the Report recently in a blog post for The Telegraph:

The publication last week of the Irish government's McAleese Report on the Magdalene laundries has proved kind of awkward for Catholic-bashers. For if McAleese's thorough, 1,000-page study is to be believed, then it would appear that those laundries were not as evil and foul as they had been depicted over the past decade. Specifically the image of the laundries promoted by the popular, much-lauded film The Magdalene Sisters – which showed them as places where women were stripped, slapped, sexually abused and more – has been called into question by McAleese. This has led even The Irish Times, which never turns down an opportunity to wring its hands over Catholic wickedness, to say: "There is no escaping the fact that the [McAleese] report jars with popular perceptions."

it's the noble lie redux, says O'Neill...the idea that it's okay to lie about something if it helps the cause.

----------------------------

and a new book about the lies against Pius XII has gotten a little tiny bit of publicity too.

Rabbi Dalin's book exposed the lies.

a longer list here.

• The Real Pius XII , by William Doino, Jr. First Things "On The Square" August 2, 2011.
• Documents Reveal Pius XII Saved 11,000 Roman Jews, Pave the Way Foundation Announces Findings Zenit. July 22, 2011.
  
• Man Recalls how Pius XII Hid Jews in the Vatican: Says Nazis Planned to Annihilate Catholics Next Zenit. November 2, 2010.
• Pius XII ‘secured visas for Jews’ after Kristallnacht Catholic Herald UK. July 7, 2010.
• Pius XII's Efforts to Save Jewish Culture Revealed, Mobilized Church Leaders to Defend Synagogues. The recently opened sections of the Vatican Secret Archives have revealed that Pope Pius XII not only helped save thousands of Jews, but also their patrimony, from the Nazis. Zenit. July 1, 2010.
• Personal Memories of Pius XII: Interview With Sister Margherita Marchione Zenit. June 7, 2010.
• How a Strategy of "Silence" Saved Thousands of Jews: Documents and Testimonies Point to Pius XII's Efforts Zenit News. May 25, 2010.
• Catholics and Jews Renew Dialogue on Pius XII, Affirm Solidarity With Benedict XVI. Zenit News. April 29, 2010.
• Archives Director: Pius XII Files Ready in 5 Years: Says No Mysteries or Surprises Expected Zenit News. March 2, 2010.
• Vatican to Put Wartime Archives Online CBS News. February 16, 2010.
• Incorrect Date on Pius XII Document Explains Silence - Pope Couldn't Be Indifferent to Raid as It Hadn't Happened Yet, by Jesús Colina. February 2, 2010.
• Pius XII Defended in Israeli Newspaper: American Scholar Says Defamation is "Doomed to Failure" Zenit. February 1, 2010.
• Nothing Novel Seen in New Pius XII Documents L'Osservatore Romano Gives Context of Two Texts From 40s. Zenit. February 1, 2010.
• Priest Gives Proof of Pius XII's Aid to Jews: Gives Testimony of Pope's Anti-Nazi Actions Zenit. January 14, 2010.
• Pius XII did help the Jews, by William Doino Jr. January 4, 2010 (Times UK) "The historical evidence that the wartime pontiff gave orders for Rome's convents and monasteries to take in Jews fleeing the Nazis"
• Friend to the Jews, by Gary L. Krupp. New York Post December 28, 2009.
• Vatican Statement on the Venerable Pius XII Here is a translation of a statement from Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi regarding Saturday's recognition of the heroic virtue of Pope Pius XII. December 23, 2009.
• Hebrew-Speaking Catholics Affirm Pius XII's Virtues: Say Only God Can Know if He Did Enough to Save Jews Zenit. December 21, 2009.
• Rabbi calls charge Pope Pius was Nazi collaborator 'false, malicious', by Peter Finney Jr. Catholic News Service November 11, 2009.
• Pius XII's War Efforts Seen on Rediscovered Films - The aid Pope Pius XII offered during World War II on behalf of all victims, regardless of their religion, is documented on newly rediscovered films. Zenit October 29, 2009.
• Defending Pius XII; A Pope for All Priests: "Fighting Nun" Publishes New Book on Wartime Pontiff Zenit. June 18, 2009.
• Italian newspaper reveals details behind Hitler’s plan to kill Pius XII Catholic News Agency. June 17, 2009.
• More Proof of Hitler's Plan to Kill Pius XII: Son of German Intelligence Officer Comes Forward Zenit News. June 16, 2009.
• Who Brought Down Pius XII? - L'Osservatore Director Blames Communists, Church Division Zenit. June 15, 2009.
• New Evidence Says Pius XII Helped Jews: Foundation to Publish 2,300 Pages of Documents Zenit. June 15, 2009.
• Pius XII. A Book and an Essay Shed Light on the Black Legend, by Sandro Magister. (Chiesa). "The image of Pacelli as "Hitler's pope" is contested by a growing number of scholars. There were many responsible for creating this image, including Catholics. But Soviet propaganda was decisive. A Jesuit historian reveals the strategy."
• Israeli, Vatican historians meet to discuss wartime pope Ha'aretz March 9, 2009.
• Vatican document shows Pius XII saved Jews JTA March 5, 2009.
• Documents show Pius saved Jews from Nazis, by Ed West. The Catholic Herald February 27, 2009. 

(more at link).

the claims he supported the Nazis was in a play by a communist, and one doesn't have to be a conspiracy theorist to wonder if this was a disinformation campaign against him (I mean, after all, it's an open secret that the communists tried to kill JP2).

But the noble lie is so much more interesting if one hates catholics.

-----------------------------

One reason I'm especially paranoid today is because Coast to Coast interviewed one of their regulars about the pope's resignation, and he mentioned that what is going to happen is that people will soon be inspired to go beyond religion and find it in their heart. Essentially the same thing the new agers like the bimbo who gave a talk to the new aged nuns said: We are going to evolve to the next step.

Why is this worrisome to me? Because the implication is that the rest of us will be left behind.

I suspect we won't be left behind as the plot of a certain famous pedophiles' book Childhood' end show (where the "enlightened" children fly off in a space ship. all the kids were middle classBritish kids, of course, not village kids from Saudi or the Philippines, but never mind)

well, the implication is that the old fashioned non elightened will disappear, as in "the disappeared"...

which only shows that I am listening to too much Coast to Coast AM...Having seen prophacies and conpiracy theories go kaput for the last 60 plus years, I enjoy reading them, but don't take them too seriously.

However, deep in one of the C2C guest's talks was this (from his website)

Then, as is all too predictable in such letters I got a lecture about what my real agenda was, that I was pushing the Jewish Cabala, that I was a liberal Catholic.

Actually I do not belong to any religion, theist or atheist. My real agenda is to share this insight: all religions are a form of corporate take-over of the living teachings of enlightened masters. With time the Religious Industrial Complex the memory of the original teachers is turned into myth and their teachings warped by unenlightened stretches to make for good business for political organizations that act as spiritual mafias of the soul. To me, true religiousness will thrive on this planet when the religions die out with a whimper in the coming centuries. Religions – whether they are theist of atheist – will be remembered as a symptom of our spiritual childishness.

Since as a Christian I view the "enlightened masters" as spirits of the world, who are luciferian "angels of light", I shudder.

But when one hears that big shots believe such things, I really get scared. Constance Cumley keeps track of such things, and how it has infiltrated our religions and institutions...and I'd say she was nuts, except that one New ager pushing evolving to a higher power in 2012 was Hubbard, who spoke to the new age nuns group last year (and was hailed by dancing in front of her:  I joked they resembled Pricilla queen of the desert, except Pricilla was more attractive. But if you are a bible thumper, it might remind you of David dancing in front of the arc of the covenant and make you shudder).

So connect the dots: New age nuns infiltrated catholic sisters, many leave their orders and new recruits dry up, resulting in the decimation of catholic institutions. New age nuns back Obamacare and shrug off that it supports abortion. New Age nuns approve abortion in their hospital, and although she later "repents", that hospital, supported with Catholic money, is no longer Catholic. Obama's "catholics" are supported by the same progressive money sources as Obama, and often are quoted in the press as "leaders", never mind that they are not grass roots but astroturfed leaders.

And I won't even mention the catholic universities, which are so bad that most kids lose their faith after attending them, if one believes the reports.

Sigh.
Mirana at Medjugorje just told people to stop reading books about that site, but instead to spend their time praying. Guess I'll have to get out my rosary.

but when I do, I get terrible memories that stop my prayer. My charismatic training says this is a demonic attack, but whatever it is, it stops my prayer. Sigh...

----------------------------

Pope Trivia at Father Z:
– The last pope who was not a cardinal yet when elected was Pope Urban VI in 1378.
– The last who was not even a priest yet was Pope Leo X.
– The last born in Rome was Pope Pius XII, elected in 1939. (He was also the last serving Vatican secretary of state elected.)
– The last African was Pope Gelasius, elected in 492.
– The last native of Dalmatia, an ancient Roman province, was Pope John IV in 640.
– The last Frenchman elected was Pope Gregory XI, in 1370.
– The last Greek was Pope Zachary in 741.
– The last Englishman was Pope Adrian IV in 1154.

 Conspiracy theory of the day: First it was communists in the Vatican, then Masonic lodges in the Vatican, then the Mafia in the Vatican, and if you believer Malachy Martin, it was satanists in the Vatican. Today's conspiracy theory: a gay clique trying to undermine the pope.



All of this resembles Joe McCarthy's charge of communists in the state department. Yes, there were some communists, and some "fellow travelers" there, but his accusations were so broad and exaggerated that good people correctly rejected his c,laims. Bureaucracies tend to be huge, and you can find all sorts of people doing their own thing there be it big business or governments.



And Benedict was trying to clean them out: his resignation had been planned for at least a year, because he probably feared they would take over if he was disabled....



as for gays in the Vatican: well, it's not just gays: one Swiss missionary told me her brother resigned from the Swiss guards because of the corruption he saw, and after one of the nuns working there made a pass at him. A lot of them are there to get them out of parish work, sort of to isolate them pushing papers, to keep them out of mischief, in the same way that Louis XIV got all his nobility to spend their energy fighting for places in Versailles instead of starting civil wars.



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe the catholic bashers were telling a noble lie

Read the whole thing: From the UKTelegraph

For if McAleese's thorough, 1,000-page study is to be believed, then it would appear that those laundries were not as evil and foul as they had been depicted over the past decade. Specifically the image of the laundries promoted by the popular, much-lauded film The Magdalene Sisters – which showed them as places where women were stripped, slapped, sexually abused and more – has been called into question by McAleese. This has led even The Irish Times, which never turns down an opportunity to wring its hands over Catholic wickedness, to say: "There is no escaping the fact that the [McAleese] report jars with popular perceptions."...
Anyone who points out that reports and depictions of abuse in Catholic institutions have been overblown risks being denounced as an abuse apologist or a sinister whitewasher. When I pointed out a couple of years ago that The Independent was wrong to say 10,000 children were raped by American priests, I was accused by one humanist magazine of being "pedantic". So it's pedantic to point out that there is a difference between being verbally abused by a priest and raped by one? These days, anyone who insists on getting the facts straight about Catholic institutions is accused of being a pedant, someone annoyingly and peskily committed to historical accuracy rather than to the grander goal of making the Catholic Church appear as rotten and warped as possible, regardless of the facts. Yet those of us, even atheists like me, who are genuinely interested in truth and justice should definitely be concerned that films and news reports may have left the public with the mistaken belief that women in Magdalene laundries were stripped and beaten and that thousands of Irish and American children were raped by priests.

STd's sigh

Instapundit has a link about the rise of STD's.

since he is a libertarian, he says the gov't should seek to fight infectious disease instead of bad habits (I presume he means gun ownership or softdrinks)

the NBC article is HERE. 

they use a CDC report that I can't find (most of the CDC reports are statistics before 2011.)

it stresses the cost of STD's of course.
but it ignores the real cause; promiscuity.

ah, but that wouldn't be politically correct.

BBC reports an increase in Hiv from gays not using condoms. 

Ya think?

and then there is the problem that Gonorrhea is again becoming resistant to drugs.

that article has a nice "way back" machine factoid:

Before the 1930s, gonorrhea often was treated with patent medicines or intraurethral irrigations with compounds such as merbromin (Mercurochrome) or other antiseptics. The introduction of sulfonamide antimicrobials in the 1930s ushered in an era of effective antimicrobial therapy for gonorrhea. However, widespread gonococcal resistance to sulfonamides occurred rapidly and was common by the 1940s.

ouch.

the drug resistance would mean the person would think they were cured, but spreads it anyway.

But again the elephant in the living room is promiscuity.

Prayer

PrayAsYouGo has a "lenten retreat"...LINK

Mediatrix?

While googling about the conspiracy theories on the resignation of the pope, I came across this note:

In his Latin-language letter naming Archbishop Zygmunt Zimowski, president of the Pontifical Council for Health Pastoral Care, as his special envoy to the solemn celebration of the World Day of the Sick at the Shrine of Our Lady of Altötting (Germany), Pope Benedict entrusted the prelate’s mission “to the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary Immaculate, Mediatrix of all graces” [intercessioni Beatae Virginis Mariae Immaculatae, Mediatricis omnium gratiarum].
Although the Second Vatican Council and numerous popes have invoked the Blessed Virgin as “Mediatrix,” the papal use of the title “Mediatrix of all graces” is far rarer. The phrase occurs most authoritatively in Caritate Christi Compulsi, Pope Pius XI’s 1932 encyclical on the Sacred Heart, and has appeared on a handful of other occasions in documents issued by Pope Benedict XV, Pope Pius XI, Venerable Pius XII, and Blessed John XXIII.
In documents issued in 1979, 1980, and 1987, Blessed John Paul II raised churches dedicated under this title to cathedral or basilica status and referred to the Blessed Virgin in one of the documents (the 1987 apostolic constitution Frequentissimae) as the “most chaste Mediatrix of all graces.”

This only means that Mary, like us, can pray for graces for others.

But to Pinoys, it is interesting, since the apparation in Lipa had Mary appearing using that name.

The Lipa apparition resulted in the normal outburst of piety of the Pinoy that scandalized the Vatican, so it was shut down.

An ABS CBN special discusses how those involved were harassed or removed, and how the bishops were ordered to sign a paper stating that vision was a fraud.

I believe this, because one of our exchage students in the US had relatives in Opus Dei and an uncle in the Jesuits who worked in the Vatican diplomatic corps. He discussed how his uncle was trying to shut down approval of the Akita Japan vision and mentioned how he related how the vatican ordered it shut down in the Philippines. I hadn't heard of Lipa at the time, but I was dating my husband and interested in the Philippines at the time, so remember the remark.

Interesting side note: Yes, the Teresita Castillo of the vision is the same one who worked on the Tagalog English dictionary

Happy little cost savings

from INstapundit

Posted at 7:30 am by Glenn Reynolds  

DOCTORS WHO TREAT THE ELDERLY ARE IN SHORT SUPPLY. “The nation’s shortage of geriatricians is no secret. The prestigious Institute of Medicine highlighted the shortage in a 2008 report, and the American Geriatrics Society has projected the nation will need 25,000 geriatricians by 2025, or about three times the 7,000 geriatricians currently certified.”
Well, once the Death Panels get rolling, they won’t be needed much.
Related: “But if the social engineers are thinking about fewer births, they must also be thinking about more deaths. What better way to avoid costs than for the aging people to depart? How can they not be thinking about that too? At least they’re sensitive enough not to spit it in our faces the way they celebrate the savings inherent in fewer births.”

Posted at 7:29 am by Glenn Reynolds  

the second link is to (feminist lesbian libertarian lawyer) Ann Althouse: who adds:

And do you really understand the new plan to accommodate religion? Do you see how the religious objectors are absolved from their connection to what they see as sin? Isn't it all sleight of hand? But what is absolution?

 UPdate: Lots of comments on her blogpost, mostly junk, but this one is interesting:

I'll ask my question again--this is for liberals who agree with Obama about providing "access" to contraception and abortion and sterilization as part of health care.

Why are you defending President Obama's choice to do this by imposing obligations on employers, and thus on people's consciences...when the legality/constitutionality of this is uncertain, and it was unnecessary?

Had Mr. Obama proposed some direct subsidy from tax dollars (there are lots of ways to do it), there's very little chance a legal challenge would prevail, and while lots of us wouldn't like it, it doesn't present the same, direct burden to conscience that the HHS mandate does.

And, by the way, none of the last year's several attempts to re-work the mandate (and more to come) would have been necessary.

Why do you liberals defend his course of action? Why do reward him for it?

(Then there's Garage, who doesn't care about any of this; he just tells people and their consciences to "f*** off.")

the irony in all of this is that it WAS unnecessary: Catholics tend to back Obama, but instead of giving a small pass to their church rules, he is "in their face". So many of us must oppose his actions. What makes it worse was the democrats refused to put it into the huge health care bill that no one read (and several prolife Democrats voted for it because he promised to add it by a priviso later, and the went back on his promise).

So why pick a fight with the church, who is a valuable ally? See previous messy post about the talking points. The church is a minority, but a large one, and if you add it to the evangelicals and Muslims who are prolife, you have almost half the population. So Obama is trying to split those of us who are "social welfare" catholics from the "conservatives", overlooking that even the most liberal catholics remember our history both in the old country and here.

There was a post by Damien thompson awhile back about a lot of priests in the UK signing a petition against gay marriage. Most folks assumed this was the conservative ones, but he knows who is who and pointed out that it included a lot of the more liberal leaders in the UK Church, who tend to be pro gay rights but not when they see a law that will lead to revival of anti catholicism in the church.

That is happening in the US.

But here in the Philippines, we are also being pushed into echoing the US State department agenda: Catholics are being warned that first it is "RH Bill" that will fine you if you criticize contraception, then it will be divorce on demand, then it will be abortion and gay marriage. The pope has warned us to expect an expose of abuse cases (here a lot of rural priests have "second wives", as mistresses are known, but no one cares, and a lot of the priests are related to the powerful families, which might stop things if it gets too rough, since most of the politicians have a "second wife" or two. PNoy? Probably gay, or maybe just a celibate nerd. His ex girlfriend isn't telling....).

Here in the Philippines, we are under pressure by China, so the US is important, but you should read the blogs and editorials of Africans, who are really opposed to this agenda. But that's another story for another blogl

HHS Mandate

LINK

Update

excuse the messy posts: My router is out so I have to post quickly on the business computer upstairs, so I have to post quickly or not at all. Previous post was like many on this, my "bitching" blog, for keeping my notes for later reading. (rather than just bookmarking them)... I should probably make this one closed to general readership, but I can't be bothered.

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Miguel ZambranoLata Nadig

Saturday at 8:17am ·

• actually, the "freedom from religion" movement means silencing any speech inspired by religion in the public square. It is the same philosophy that was pushed in communist countries, that killed over 100 million people (as opposed to naziism, which pushed a pagan version of christianity that killed 30 million). As for "goddess worship": read your history, or check India's feminists fighting girls being forced into being temple prostitues,
  
  Lata: Your anti christian arguments does not prove you are progressive, only that you are a bigot. We Catholics remember losing jobs and being ridiculed for our faith, so we recognize such things. Maybe instead of parroting "Straw man" fallacies about religion, you should actually find out what Christians believe, and stop assuming one "talking point" that takes a single quote out of context applies to the religion of 2 billion people.

  Like · · · See Friendship

  • 

    Lata Nadig Dr. Nancy, I think again you are not recognizing what is happening in this country. The religious right is not only just chanting in the public square, it's stuffing its creed down our throats, up our vaginas, and into our science books. It is not of ...See More

    Saturday at 10:02am · Like · 1
  • 

    Lata Nadig oh, and by the way, Dr. Nancy, I love you. Not because jesus (or Devi) tells me to. But because I do.

    Saturday at 10:35am · Like
  • 

    Miguel Zambrano Ah, but did you actually observe this or is it what you read on progressive websites? A few small legislative things in a few states, and you take them out of context and state things like the government should deport all these dodos. you ignore that now Catholics may have to lose all their hospitals due to obamacare regulations, but those nuances aren't written about on the ACLU sites. You are not being thrown out of your job for being willing to do abortions: But I was almost thrown out of medical school for not doing them. What saved me was the 1995 civil rights act...as for evolution: That is also a straw man argument, since most christians believe in the science of evolution, but not the philosophy of blind evolution.

    Saturday at 1:44pm · Like
  • 

    Miguel Zambrano You are supposed to be a sceptic, but you aren't sceptical about the talking points you are being fed. The religious right is "pushing" things on you? How? By refusing to pay for your birth control? By refusing to water down 3000 years of traditional marriage to allow open marriages of the gay community? By declaring that there As for the Amish: ah yes. They are taken to court all the time. But are you suggesting that the 40 percent of Americans who are born again christians should not be allowed freedom of speech? How about the 20 percent of Americans who are Catholic? The way you talk we are not allowed to give an opinion on anything in the public sphere if it is "inspired" by religion. That, of course, would allow the self appointed elites to run the place unopposed. So much for democracy.

    Saturday at 2:04pm · Like
  • 

    Miguel Zambrano FYI: goddess worship.http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2001/01/the-scholars-and-the-goddess/305910/?single_page=true It's a variation of "me"ism religion: sort of an exaggeration of Luthur's ideas of individual religion trumps traditions.

    

    The Scholars and the Goddess

    www.theatlantic.com

    Historically speaking, the

    Saturday at 2:07pm · Like · Remove Preview
  • 

    Miguel Zambrano as for creationism? isn't evolution taught in your local schools? it was in pennsylvania. The problem is not science vs non science, the question no one is discussing is the science of evolution (Which catholics said was okay as far back as Augustus) versus the philosophy of Blind evolution, which Dawkins writes about nicely. Dawkins knows little or nothing of other religions, but he is excellent for explaining his own belief system of scientism

    Saturday at 2:09pm · Like
  • 

    Miguel Zambrano sorry: I wrote too much. But in college, I learned to think, and not accept the right or the left wing propaganda (at that time, the war in Viet Nam was full of lies, but the anti war propaganda was also full of lies). Life doesn't work that way. And if it makes you feel better, I also play "the devil's advocate" on conservative blogs.

    Saturday at 2:20pm · Like
  • 

    Lata Nadig I know you do. Oh, I have so much to respond to all your points, and I wish I just had the time. I have been quite hedonistic in the last weeks and that and procrastination must be paid for now,,,
    but the quick answer is YES, I have observed this, not just on progressive blogs, but with the people I talk to, strangers, patients, friends, in sound, well researched journalism, among people who are normally religious (like yourself) but are appalled at the labels Christianity is receiving due to the fundamentalist throngs trying to take away the first amendment provisions on religion in this country- not one small bible thumping backwater town but many many many towns and cities and states too - there may be small changes, but they are precedents. I am sorry your want to impose your religious beliefs on the (STATE JURISDICTION) of marriage in the gay community. What Catholics think about Catholic marriage in the Catholic church (or any other religious organization) needs to remain there. You recognize the larger message of such sanction, and yet you feel that it is ok to ostracize an entire community. That, to me, is bigotry.
    And I am truly sorry that YOUR first amendment rights were ignored and you were traumatized (as was my mother) regarding abortion, but the pendulum has swung the other way- and on the odd occasion that it is still in favor of the seculars- i.e., birth control and the Catholic church- it is being recognized and address to come up with reasonable solutions for all - or all those Catholic hospitals funded exclusively by the tithe system?
    Extremism on either side is wrong.

    Saturday at 9:31pm · Like
  • 

    Miguel Zambrano Lata, it's not just that I disagree with you on all of this (Most of the time I agree). It's just that you are being illogical. A lot of these talking points are exaggerations of subtle ideas of philosophy. I see as promoted by the President of my political party, and the fact that he is using his talking points (which I get in emails) to distort and cause hatred of the opposition is disturbing. As for Catholics: Common law traditions and religious traditions are time tested ideas that work, even when you don't agree with them. The cutting edge right now is not gay rights or abortion rights: The cutting edge is destroying the idea that men and women are made differently and pair bond to protect children. The c

    33 minutes ago · Like
  • 

    Miguel Zambrano You still are using arguments of the progressive community. Fine. I can argue them too. My point is that you are ignoring the subtle arguments of those you disagree with...and you still are telling me the extreme talking points of my church, not bothering to ask us why we believe such things (which are long and nuanced and usually distorted in the media) .As an honest sceptic, you need to be logical, not accept talking points of the media or the left as the truth, especially when they are illogical...put this nice gif up on your desk and check it when you get your next talking points memo..http://i.imgur.com/FvjXh.jpg

    

    http://i.imgur.com/FvjXh.jpg

    i.imgur.com

    10 minutes ago · Like · Remove Preview
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